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Pre-Foreplay Techniques That Move Her To Foreplay [TheMarriageYouWant]

Pre-Foreplay Techniques That Move Her To Foreplay  [TheMarriageYouWant]

(Don’t miss the fascinating Blog Comments below.)

In this ten part dialog with Calle Zorro of The Marriage You Want, we talk about crossing the chasm from foot rubs to foreplay. How do you go from “honey-dos” and acts of service to sexual arousal.

If your wife says, “A foot rub, you’re just trying to get sex from me,” what can you do?

Learn how to get your woman to “come out and play” with you.

05 Pre-Foreplay Techniques That Move Her To Foreplay

“Right Click” Here to Download

Make sure you also grab Calle’s free eBook, “How To Change Your Wife Into The Kind Of Woman You Want Her To Be.”

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With love,
Susan Bratton

19 Comments

  1. Ok, I’m a bit late in listening to this interview with Calle…somehow I thought I had heard this one, but missed it.

    And I have to say that it kinda depressed me (no, that’s not true…it really depressed me).

    A lot of the latter part of this discussion centered around teaching your wife to let go and relax and to not think of sex as being something where she has to please the husband.

    I then have put it back and try to apply this to my situation and that’s where my frustration starts.

    All of the very sparse sex I’ve had with my wife over the roughly the past decade has been with me focusing on exactly this. I try to build up slowly for her, get her to enjoy and relax, and ensure that she orgasms and that there is no focus on me or my needs until after she orgasms. And then, I take care of my own with little help from her.

    The problem is that I have always done all the ‘work’ in sex. She lays there pretty passively from foreplay, through her orgasm, and then through mine. I get some feedback when she’s close to orgasming, but outside of that she’s quiet and just lays there.

    I know both Susan and Calle insist that “your wife is a sexual, sensual being” and I’m part of my brain is trying to accept that this is true. But a large part of my brain looks at 20+ years of facts and says, “You guys are crazy”.

    From dating through marriage through children to now, my wife has never been sensual or sexual. All the “drive” in our marriage has come from me and my efforts. All the “hot horny” teenage making out and fiddling around? Me. Sex since then. Me. My wife is always just the passive participant.

    So, I’m just feeling really frustrated today and needed to vent. I feel that whatever my wife needs to “awaken” her is beyond my reach….I have no clue how to awaken her. And I’m really doubting that there is anything to awaken.

    Let me take a time out from my venting, just to go all technical here:

    Every person is going to be at a different “place” on a spectrum of sensuality and sexuality. Some of this is behavioral, but a big part is also biological. Some people are going to be at the low end of this spectrum (say, a zero or one) and some people are going to be at the high end (nine or ten). I think it’s very unrealistic to say that everybody can be moved to the far high end. Maybe you can shift each individual towards the higher end, but somebody that’s a one or two may only be able to move to the middle of the spectrum in a lifetime.

    There is a limit to the “potential” each person has and how far that individual can climb to. It varies with each person, but to deny that that limit is there is to ask for self-induced-defeat. NOTE: Just because there is a limit to that potential does not mean that each person shouldn’t try to improve himself or herself. There’s always room for improvement. But you have to allow that those gains have to be realistic.

    For example, I’ll never be particularly good at music. I’ve tried playing several instruments and can become “technically proficient”, but I’ll never be a master musician….that’s just reality and I’m fine with accepting that.

    Similarly, you are not going to take a 250 pound football player and turn that individual into a olympic gymnast. That potential just isn’t there. There are REAL biological differences that limit that potential.

    And that’s where I struggle with my wife. The more I learn from my in-depth reading first kicked off by finding Revive Her Drive, the more of a stark landscape I see.

    Ok, Rant turned off now.
    (But I have to say, I don’t feel any better).

    Steamy.

    • Steamy,
      I am feeling for you this morning.
      And I disagree with your logic.
      There are talents and skills and capabilities that individuals unique possess. With this I agree.
      Where I don’t agree is that individuals have, for lack of a better term, sexual setpoints.
      I choose to believe that every human has desire, sexuality and an ability to orgasm as a core capability, like digesting food or walking. It’s programmed into our DNA.
      Even if there are gradations of how well our stomachs work or how long we can walk compared to another, the fundamental ability lies resident in all of us as humans.
      So, there are some limiting beliefs your wife is holding that are standing in the way of her making noise, taking initiative and being an active participant, even a hungry participant for sex with you.
      I’d suggest you listen again to the Overcoming Resistance sections of Revive Her Drive and then talk to her about this. What are her beliefs? Don’t guess! Ask. I imagine she has received some early programming about how a “good girl” behaves regarding sex.
      This sound purely mental. All the “sensual awakening” you do won’t change her brain. So you must get in there, under the hood, and help her examine her beliefs. Being very explicit with her, very specific about what you’d like her to do would help her understand the delta between what she’s “giving you” and what you want. Can you talk to her about this? Is there enough love and support and lack of judgement in your relating to allow you to tread on this ground?

      • Susan –

        I love your optimism. You sound like me.

        I believe in what you are doing. I, too, once believed that anyone can help their partner to discover and improve their sensual and emotional relating experience with the right guidance and training.

        However, I have come to accept, reluctantly, that a significant number of otherwise normal human beings simply don’t have the active areas of the brain necessary to experience and maintain a meaningful emotional and sensual relationship.

        I came to this conclusion after I became aware of a shocking yet surprisingly common mental condition effecting a otherwise healthy couple. Their experiences, and all that I have learned since, shook my natural optimism about our ability to reach almost anyone on an emotional and sensual level.

        One Couple’s Experience

        (To protect their identities, lets call our couple “Bob” and “Mary”.)

        Bob and Mary were married for nearly twenty years. Bob loved his wife and she appeared to love him too.

        However, Bob’s experiences in bed were much as Steamy described his above.

        Also, he noticed that his conversations with Mary outside of the bedroom were always externally oriented – never about feelings or their relationship – just about schedules and children and “stuff”.

        To Bob, there seemed to be no intimacy between them.

        In the past Bob had assumed that Mary was just shy. He thought that once he got her into bed and introduced her to valuable material such as yours, Mary would “wake up” and everything would be just fine.

        However, nothing Bob did seemed to help, and eventually Mary admitted to Bob that she had no interest in sex, but didn’t know why.

        Mary saw no serious problem for the relationship, but Bob definitely did.

        At Bob’s urging, they participated in couples therapy, which continued on and off for years, usually with the same skilled counselor who they both admired.

        As a result of their counseling it finally became apparent to Bob that Mary didn’t really “get” what was wrong in the relationship. She allowed Bob to use her body for sex. She wanted Bob to be happy. But she seemed to have no idea what “intimacy” meant, though she never admitted this.

        Eventually, after exhaustive research and some testing, Bob made a shocking discovery – the culprit threatening his marriage was a little understood mental “condition” called Type 2 Alexithymia.

        What the Heck is “Alexithymia”?

        I use the experience of Bob and Mary as a typical yet mild example of what couples effected by Alexithymia go through.

        Alexithymia is a widely experienced but little understood brain condition (or personality type, if you will) that effects a surprisingly significant portion of the human population.

        Because this condition is so common, I believe that many of those who seek out help for their relationships but hit brick walls may actually be dealing with a condition that no emotional and/or sensual awakening techniques will conquer.

        Alexithymia is a condition in which a person is unable to identify or connect with their emotions, and where the effected person often believes that the physical manifestations of those emotions are caused by non-emotional forces.

        For example, if an Alexithymic woman became wet “down there” after watching a risque scene on film, she would likely think that she had had an accident. It would never occur to her that she was sexually aroused by the film.

        She may not even truly understand what “arousal” is, though she would probably never admit that.

        There is a fundamental disconnect in the brains of people with Alexithymia between their bodies and their emotions.

        Alexithymia is essentially low emotional IQ. It is usually accompanied by a lack of significant personal life-vision and poor imaginative skills.

        Traumatic (Type 1) Alexithymia

        Some people experience Alexithymia after trauma, such as a soldier returning home from combat (PTSD), or as a result of child abuse.

        In these folks the brain seems to have inhibited the connections between the reasoning and emotional centers of the brain, likely as a protective mechanism in response to their trauma.

        I suspect that many military spouses today may be dealing with Type 1 Alexithymia in their relationships with current or former active duty military personnel without understanding what is wrong.

        Genetic (Type 2) Alexithymia

        Many others have this condition as a result of their genetics.

        About 80% of people who are on the Asperger’s or Autism scale experience Alexithymia.

        I almost said “suffer from Alexithymia”, but I didn’t because many of these Type 2 folks, having never experienced the kind of sensual and deeply emotional experiences that you write and speak about, are perfectly happy being as they are, and may even dismiss a partner who asks for more intimacy as “needy”.

        Alexithymia & Autism

        Most of us think of Autism as being a completely debilitating disease, but in fact science is just now recognizing that perhaps tens of millions of otherwise normal, successful adults have a personality that puts them on the mild end of the Autism scale, and thus at high risk for being Alexithymic.

        You probably know several.

        Relationships & Alexithymia

        Alexithymia is tragic condition that can devastate relationships.

        Alexithymia & Sex

        Many Alexithymic folks are incapable of tapping into their own emotions. They may be able to physically participate in sex. They may even have a physical orgasm, but the experience often has no significant emotional effect on them.

        Women with Alexithymia may become good at “faking it” in bed, or they may not bother. Men may have more difficulty hiding their condition, and as a result there are more reported cases of Alexithymia involving men.

        People with Type 2 Alexithymia seem to have a brain that sees no connection between the sexual act and emotion. And for whom sensuality may be a confusing or even overwhelming experience.

        Many Type 2 Alexithymics may see no point in sex, as they are not naturally attuned to physical sensation as a source of pleasure, something most of us were born with and began experiencing with our first suckle on our mother’s breast.

        Alexithymia & Relationship Satisfaction

        Eighty percent of relationships involving at least one partner on the Autism scale end in divorce. I know of no such statistics available for Alexithymia, but I suspect they may be even higher.

        Practically everyone polled in these relationships has reported significant relationship dissatisfaction.

        If you are in such a relationship and are emotionally dissatisfied, I hate to say it, but your best bet may be to part ways amicably, if possible.

        The Cassandra Syndrome

        Outsiders rarely know the suffering that the non-Alexithymic spouse can going through. And since the Alexithymic spouse usually does not acknowledge a problem, the non-Alexithymic spouse may blame him or herself, and suffer for it.

        A co-dependent relationship often arises in these circumstances, one that ultimately wears down the non-Alexithymic spouse, manifesting in them as physical illnesses, particularly those involving the autoimmune system.

        Essentially, these poor people slowly wither and die from lack of intimacy, and often no one believes them when they cry for help, since the Alexithymic spouse can be so convincing.

        The condition described above as experienced by non-Alexithymic spouses has been dubbed the “Cassandra Syndrome” by the psychiatric community. Cassandra was a woman from Greek mythology who was condemned by the Gods to be constantly dismissed by others, and never taken seriously. She cried for help but no one believed her.

        Recognizing Alexithymia

        Alexithymia is a “hidden” condition, because it is usually skillfully covered up by those who have it.

        Moreover, an individual may be highly intelligent, even brilliant, in all other areas of their personality. So it often won’t occur to others that he or she could have a mental “condition” or deficit.

        Type 2 Alexithymics are often experts at projecting a perfect public image, the result of a lifetime of faking emotional behavior in order to survive in an emotion-dominated world.

        Alexithymia Treatment

        There is treatment available for those who experience trauma-based, or Type 1 Alexithymia. If you are reading this and believe that a loved one or friend may be experiencing Type 1 Alexithymia, and that person wants to change, suggest that they see a competent professional.

        Unfortunately, there is no known effective treatment or cure for genetically-based, Type 2 Alexithymia or for Autism generally. And, since many with this condition don’t mind having it, you may find that your Alexithymic partner has no desire to change.

        Susan, please keep doing what you are doing. No doubt you are helping thousands of individuals and couples have happier, more fulfilling lives.

        I hope that my comment here helps to fill in one corner of our understanding of the complex web that is human relationships.

        I wish you all the best,

        Hugh DeBurgh
        “The Passionate Warrior”

        (Note: I am not a mental health professional and nothing herein is intended as professional advice)

  2. First, EVERYBODY has passion within them.

    Second, everybody wishes they were living a life where they were sharing their passion with somebody special…and yet as much as people want this, they will generally find one way or another to squelch, bury, and block their passion…which creates much unhappiness within them. (The few who develop themselves past this…along with the few who were fortunate enough to grow up under parents who modeled and taught them not to block themselves…are the few who enjoy the good life.)

    Third, there IS a way to bring the passion out of every person. The passion is there and it is just a matter of finding the right and safe way to bring it out of them.

    The caveat is that there are RARE cases where a woman refuses to let her husband bring that passion out of her. She has the passion inside of her…but even after her husband has transformed himself from an undeveloped, unattractive, and offensive husband into a highly desirable and attractive husband…she still refuses to let go of her bitterness and hurt over his past offenses…she refuses to let him lead her out of that negative state of mind and into a relationship where they can both enjoy the kind of marriage that everybody wants but so few people have.

    In other words, in a few rare cases, a woman will determine that she is NEVER going to let her husband open her up to sharing her passion with him…no matter how perfectly he does things in relation to her.

    But, from the way you describe your situation, I do not believe this caveat applies to you. There may come a time when it does apply to you…but it does not apply to you at this time.

    Here is a question for you…

    In one place in your story, you mentioned a decade of missing passion…and then in another place you mentioned 20+ years of missing passion.

    In some cases, the difference in time is due to a wife trying to share her passion with a husband for some period of time…but not very successfully because of his unattractive mode of operation…before she shuts down on him and really becomes non-passionate in relation to him.

    In other cases, the difference in time means the man has created the same response in two different women.

    In some cases, the difference in time means a man dated a non-passionate woman for a long period of time and then he married her.

    Whatever your answer is in your specific case, it will reveal some important characteristics about yourself to you if you will step back and notice them.

    Let’s go deeper…

    In order to transform your marriage relationship into what you (and your wife) want it to be, there are three areas of focus:

    1. What you are already doing that is good. These are the things you want to keep doing on purpose…with more understanding of how and why they work…so that you can do them with more confidence so they can work even better for you.

    2. What you are doing that is NOT good. These are the things you are doing that cause your wife to resist sharing her passion with you. These are the things you habitually do that turn your wife off…and you do not realize you are doing them…you are unaware of the effect they have upon your wife.

    3. What you are NOT doing that you should be doing.

    ALL THREE OF THESE ARE YOUR OPPORTUNITY AREAS FOR TRANSFORMING YOUR MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIP INTO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE. Area #1 represents plenty of opportunity for you…area #2 represents even more opportunity…area #3 represents your greatest opportunity.

    But, there is a problem. Whatever your age is, that is how many years you have had to develop a certain mode of operation that creates the kinds of results you are experiencing in your life. The problem is, your mode of operation is such an engrained part of who you are that it seems good and right to you…and you do it without thinking about it…without awareness of how it REALLY works…or how it REALLY affects other people.

    This is why area #3 is your greatest opportunity area…and it is the area that you will most resist…it is the area that you will have the hardest time opening yourself up to…because it is NOT a part of your existing mode of operation.

    Let’s keep going…

    In general, husbands fall into one of two categories:

    1. The GUY — these husbands are not very masculine in relation to their wife but they are nice, loyal, supportive, considerate, caring, devoted, doting, wife-focused husbands.

    2. The GORILLA — these husbands are very masculine in relation to their wife but they are selfish husbands who are not very nice, supportive, considerate, and so on.

    And, the dichotomy between these two is that a woman can live with the GUY but she can’t be sexual with him…and she can be sexual with the GORILLA but she can’t live with him. So obviously, any man who wants to be successful with his woman must learn how to become a balanced blend of masculinity and manliness…or what I simply refer to as a MAN.

    Now, from the way you described your situation…from multiple things that you said…I am quite certain that you are the “GUY” kind of husband…which means you are going to have to ramp up your masculinity side of things…you are going to have to transition into a more MANLY kind of husband…you are going to have to develop into the parts that you are not doing (area #3)…before you are ever going to get a sexual response out of your wife towards you.

    Why do I say this? Why do I think you are a “GUY” kind of husband?

    Well, extracting from your story, here is just one of several examples that I could give:

    “I have always done all the ‘work’ in sex. She lays there pretty passively from foreplay, through her orgasm, and then through mine”

    A masculine, manly kind of husband is simply NOT going to let something like this happen. I won’t go into what he would do here…but I will tell you that he will NOT set there grinding away on a passive woman as he mechanically works his way through a process.

    Now, I don’t say these things to be mean or critical. I say these things so that you can recognize your opportunities.

    Moreover, I am not saying you lack masculinity in all areas of your life. Some husbands are plenty masculine…UNTIL…they walk through the front door of their house.

    Remember, there are three areas of opportunity for you. There is a LOT that you can do about your marriage relationship. I hope you can let yourself feel the hope, encouragement, and excitement about all the possibilities that exist that you have not even tapped into yet.

    Everything I have talked about here is what men learn in my program. Now here, because this is a public setting, I am speaking a bit abstractly…but I assure you, there is nothing abstract about my program. Inside my program, you will discover multiple mistakes that you are making…that you have described in your “story”…that you are not even aware that you are making. Moreover, in my program, you will get the support you need as you work your way through all three areas of focus that I mentioned above…gaining the understanding of how and why things work with a woman so that you can do them more confidently…becoming aware of how you are shutting down your wife and blocking her passion…and making the shifts into the proper balance of masculinity and manliness…so that you get the results that you want…and so that your wife finally has the man who can unleash all her passion.

    So, don’t waste any more time…there is no need to live a dissatisfying life when education and implementation can give you what you want: http://www.TheMarriageYouWant.com

    • This is Susan weighing in on Calle’s comment to underscore that I asked him to post this comment, I encouraged him to put his website address and I encourage any man who wants to work on himself to consider following Calle’s programs. Calle is one of my recommended experts, is a core part of Revive Her Drive with his module called, “3 Steps To Help Your Wife Access and Express Her Sexuality.” This (paid program) two-hour dialog between Calle and I gets to the heart of how you can begin to do what you are not doing and should be doing to increase the passion between you and your wife. If you haven’t yet listened to the “Insights Into Intimacy” 10 part dialog that Calle and I recently recorded, dealing with everything from “how to flirt with your wife,” to “if she doesn’t kiss you anymore,” to “the two things your wife would change about you” and more, search THIS blog in the upper right hand corner for “Insights Into Intimacy” and you will find all the published dialogs, which you can stream from your browser or download and take on the go, compliments of Calle and I.
      We want to touch as many men as possible with our work, so feel free to send a link from this blog post to your other friends who you think may be struggling with the issue of wanting a more passionate marriage. And comment below to let us know if we’ve helped, and how we can support you further.

  3. Wow, I’m tickled at such lengthy and deep responses to my question. I had read Susan’s response and had taken a few days to have some discussions with my wife, and just came back to post a followup and see that there are lots more things for me to consider.

    So, let me try to comment in order:

    Susan @2:
    It almost would be a relief to find something “big” in her past. That would give me a place to “put my shovel in the ground”. But I haven’t found anything. She and I hadn’t talked about our backgrounds in years, as it was something we discussed when we were first dating (so, nearly 24 years ago). So, I reopened the discussions this week with an eye towards probing a bit deeper (something I wouldn’t have thought of when I was younger). But, nothing there–to be specific: no sexual trauma or assault, no overbearing parents, raised in a non-religious household, little to no discussion of sex growing up, learned most about sex from friends, friends moderately sexual in adolescence, but she stayed a virgin until meeting me.

    Calle @3:
    On the 10 “missing” years, that was more a lack of clarity on my part, so I’ll try to be more clear:
    We are mid-40′s and married in early-20′s after dating for about 4 years. The first decade (the “missing” one) was when I was younger (and more naive, self-centered, and not sexually skilled at all) and more occupied with my pleasure than really trying to focus on her pleasure. The latter decade I mentioned has been spent with a lot of time focusing on her pleasure (or attempting to). However, we had sexual relationship issues within just a couple of years of marriage because she wasn’t interested in sex. And she admits that she’s not that interested in sex. But she’s not passionate about much either. She has likes and dislikes, but “passionate” is not a good adjective to describe my wife at any time that I’ve known her.

    If I look back through the colored lens of time, I realize that my younger self was the driver of the sexual relationship and that there was little to no passion on her side, even from the beginning of the relationship….but my younger self was too full of hormones to notice. There was a girl willing to have sex with me and that was enough for the younger me.

    Our relationship is always “pleasant” and my wife is always sweet. There is no negative commenting nor fighting in our lives and there hasn’t been the entire time we’ve been together. (It’s neutrally dull…..I’d almost relish some form of passion, even a negative form). I think I’ve only seen my wife mad on two occasions, both nearly 20 years ago (and neither directed at me). We function more as a “business unit” with each of use discussing the logistics of life. I try to pull her into more “fun” ways of being, but it doesn’t seem to help…she isn’t interested in going there. It’s even something our kids have mentioned….that mommy is always serious.

    My wife is a nurturer by nature, but I don’t seem to be able to tick that over into sensuality and sexual passion. She’ll stay until 2am making cookies, but isn’t interested in sex at 9:30pm. If you think of the “stereotypical” home-maker grandmother….that’s my wife as a teenager, as a 20-year old, at 30, and now into her 40′s–crafts, baking, and gardening, and not interested in sensuality or sexuality. She thinks of the crafts, baking, and gardening as her “art” and that’s what she’s drawn to and enjoys…but in a very quiet, sublime, internal way.

    As for your assessment of me being the “GUY”, yeah, I’m much more the nice guy than the gorilla by far. I found your item 2 (“What you are doing that is NOT good.”) to be an interesting teaser…..I wasn’t sure if you were saying it could be offset by (3) or had to be addressed specifically. Since it would be an ingrained pattern, I can see that it would be difficult to offset.

    I had looked at your program, and it does look interesting. I wanted to hear all the 10 dialogues before making any decision, and I think Susan has released 7 of them at this point.

    Thanks for the detailed food for thought.
    S.

  4. Hi Steamy

    I’d like to add my comments here more as general background on Revive Her Drive. I bought Revive Her Drive (RHD) out of total desperation. My wife is the quintessential English Rose whose idea of sex is: it doesn’t happen. Nice people suffer it only to produce a child then put it away. She’s never orgasmed and has enough phobias to send a doctor mental. She feels no sexual pleasure, full stop. Our sex life was heading nowhere fast. We are currently undergoing sex therapy to which she is resistant. Therapy helps, but is going around in circles.

    Now, like Susan and Calle, this is what I believe: she has the sensuality and sexuality, she just does not see through to it. I believe in her. She’s scared of moving out of her comfort zones. She loves ‘cuddles’ which is her form of ‘sex’. So inside – she has what it takes.

    So I started using the RHD principles on her, starting with the first principle: dropping my anger, frustration and whinging for sex. Doing that made me realise how much baggage I had been carrying around that was blocking my life and getting in her face. Letting it go was an amazing relie! That one step alone removed a huge block in how I perceived my ‘English Rose’. Then I nourished and worked on our relationship with the small offers, genuine companionship, a bit of polarity, and all the other ideas that were in there. Like any ‘therapy’ I made steps forward and back.

    One lesson I learned was this: you can read RHD and the accompanying materials and apply them. But actually the message in the materials is very deep. I had an insight a while back that the biggest platform for all of these is respect. My wife needs respect to validate her life, and this is what I took to heart and worked on. (I used the Relationship Values Workbook to help open my understanding). Small offers, polarity, etc., are not glossy little things – they have to be done with love and respect and from the heart.

    I applied these RHD ideas – probably a bit haphazardly – and to my complete surprise after two months my wife threw out a pile of her phobias in one go and opened right up. I could not believe it. I would never have seen it coming. It was a shock. So what I’d been doing HAD worked, but I still am not sure exactly how! I’ll say one thing: it was not the therapy. She’s still resistant to that.

    We still have many hurdles to get over. She can’t feel any pleasure but she is way more adventurous and now often starts things off! OK she feels little, but loves the intimacy and that is built on the increased respectful relationship. But we’re making progress and I cannot help but swear by Susan’s tremendous works. At one point, in a bit of despair, I put a request for help and ideas on the RHD Forum and in swift reply I had the most sensitive and wonderfully helpful ideas from Susan and Sloane.

    I can’t suggest anything to help you. That would be presumptuous. But I hope my story helps you a little. The biggest experience of my case is I dropped the baggage and started REALLY to respect my wife’s position and simply tried to nourish our relationship using the RHD ideas. (And when I say “really” I mean every bit of that word.) Somewhere, with the pressure off and her being able to be closer and more “cuddly” as she calls it, she blossomed. And I can now see there really is passion within her to come out – we’re just not quite there yet. And everyone’s passion is different; she’ll always be quiet, caring, cuddly and warm, not some kind of screaming porn queen. And I shall value whatever kind of ‘hot’ sexual passion she’ll bring – I know it is in her and when she brings it along, I know it will be from her heart.

    So these guys (Susan and pals) I would not call crazy. They work hard on this and they support us, their customers with a warmth and personal attention I still am amazed over.

    OK, that’s my angle. I’ve written this off my own bat and genuinely because I feel strongly about it. I hope a few other people will chip in and help you. I do wish you all the best and good luck, and I hope things work out for you.

    Clive

  5. Hey,

    I am the proud owner of The Marriage You Want (Calle Zoro) Revive Her Drive (Susan Bratton) and Dr Patti’s Expand her O material. As David Shade said (about his own material) “learning all of this information at once is like drinking from a fire hose.” He also said: “I dont tell you the things you want to hear, I tell you the things that you need to hear.”

    This has become relevant for me in a big way, I have been given the rare oppertunity to really take a hard look at myself and has allowed me to see myself as my wife (and others) see me. It has increased my self awareness and my “mode of operation” as Calle would say it or how I “walk through my life as Susan would say it”….I’ll quickly add its not always been the greatest movie to watch. Through more than a little pain on some occasions, I have noticed the transformation take place in my own personality. This has made the treatment I get from my wife (or my false perceptions) of lesser concern… I’ll quickly add that I have far to go.

    Yes I will categorize my self as a “Guy” who used to hide behind the good cooking and the material gifts that perhaps served more of my own ego than hers (I still like to cook). I now understand why she is reluctant to accept gifts and rebuffs my offers to take our sexual relationship to another level when I place more importance on the ego based “gift” or “next level” instead of being present in that journey. I work daily on keeping a metal finger on my emotional pulse and taking things a step at a time.

    My hot house orchid (thanks Clive) is; yes, somewhat PG-13, and while we have sex all of the time and loves my sultry fantasy stories i tell her in bed, she’s a bit reluctant to experience the total loss of control an expanded orgasm would bring. She thinks I feel it’s never enough and that I have too much energy for her. She is resistant to letting me setting up and getting into loverspace and doing the stoking it would take to bring her there. I told her that I am doing this for both of us and you can just lie there and let it happen (or not happen) it doesn’t matter and there is absolutely no judgement and im open to what she brings etc. She said she’ll think about it….so we’ll see what happens.

    Thanks again you guys for all of your help! It has become quite a journey… and I’m almost becomming someone I would want to date, — but I’m still washing my hair and Ill have to call me back later… ; )

    • I just posted my personal opinion of Calle Zorro vs. David Shade in the Revive Her Drive Member’s Forum.

      Revive Her Drive members can read my private opinion by clicking here.

      If you want to become a Revive Her Drive customer, you can sign up to trial the program for 14 days with this special link.

      Click on their names, if you want to check out Calle and Shade.

  6. @clivercc 6: Thank you so much for posting this background. It’s really helpful and refreshing to see some feedback from somebody in a similar situation. I posted several comments in the forums hoping to generate some guy-helps-guy conversations, but so far, there haven’t been any followup posts. I’m glad you’ve had success with RHD. I’ve found that when I dropped my anger (which took a few months), I found the love I felt had really been corroded by a couple decades of bottled-up anger. I’m not sure where I’m at now. One of my forum posts was on trying to see how you fall “back” in love.

  7. @bonnienpaul 7: It’s funny that you mentioned Shade and Zorro in your comments….I had just posted a comment over in the forum on whether anybody can compare their materials.

    Shade’s stuff can be well “sampled” from his website and by spending $10 for his intro book on Amazon (which I have). I like it and find it really insightful.

    Zorro’s stuff is a different story. He purposefully restricts what he publicly says and doesn’t get into the details. Same for his website and forums. Even in the dialogues with Susan, he’s intentionally vague. You cannot tell what he’s going to advocate. I’m not comfortable with that “hidden” view. Plus the religious angle, for me, is off-putting.

    Can you compare the philosophy differences between Shade and Zorro? What their materials advocate?

    S.

    • I’d love to hear your answer to this @bonnienpaul.

  8. Thomas Edison once said that creativity is one percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration. David’s techniques provid the 1 percent “top of the pyramaid”, and Calle provides you with the essential 90 at its base.

    David Shade is extremely insightful when it comes to women’s sexuality and he has some really jucy stuff that I’m dying to try, but I know we’re not there just yet, so I’m not going to go there until were absolutely ready. Will I be working on my masculinity, leadership and becomming an interesting guy… a guy I’d want to date….you bet!!! and he touches on all of that stuff in his manifesto in a big way. I temper his material with Karen Brody’s concepts regarding seduction integrity. I could listen to her all day. Calle also provides tough love by expanding on David’s Manisfesto with a program that you read — and then reread — and read again, and then screw up a few times, and read again, etc. Yes, I think Calle’s material is worth its weight in gold (and he’s a really nice guy besides) I don’t want to “shake my finger”, but I recommmend until you get Calle’s Zoro’s material under your belt, I would only use fundimental aspects of David’s material until you have gotten your house in order. You really neeed to have your shit to gether to try his more advancd stuff… If you have read (or listened to) David’s “What is a Masterful Lover”, Calle Zoro’s mateiral expands on all of those aspects he touches upon and provides the baby steps steps necessary attain them.

    Is this the only material you should get?…..Nope! because Susan in her “Seduction Summit” provides an indepth survey, interviews and hard copy of wide panel of experts (including Calle and David) and at the risk of sounding like even more of a shill… it is pure genius!

    At first, I did all of this stuff because I wanted to “get sex” which is certantly the “hook” in all of this material, but you find out quickly its more about respect affection and; of course, sexual fufilment — for both of you. That said, be careful with this stuff, be like Shogun, If your insencere or are trying too hard to please her– she’ll smell it on you and to quote Alex Allmen who is also very good, it will come off as “un- confident”. Pay more attention to what is in between the steps instead of the steps themselves. Thats my own!

    Take Care

  9. I almost forgot Dr Patti who has taught me to touch a woman and set the physical and mental stage that gives my touch greater presence and impact.

  10. Wow, Loads of feedback in here, I relate very closely to Steamy and Clivercc’s stories.
    I also share Steamy’s reticence at Calle’s “god bothering” and vaguely “pushy” emails.

    Karen Brodie in her RHD interview had me in tears (in fact she opened floodgates that had never been open (vulnerability guys, not crybaby). What a wonderful woman who says what she means and means whats she says, especially after her pause to think that had me checking player was still on. Even after months of dropping “sex bunny” my wife still can’t believe the space I am giving her. It is all helping. But David Shade’s “choose wisely” haunts me.

    My wife has more issues seething and writhing within her than she or I could have guessed at in the beginning. Many going back decades. A biggie is the recent discovery that what she believed to be unrequited love was in fact reciprocated by a military man who just stopped writing to her. KIA (Falklands).
    She never knew.

    I could go on and on with them but all are surfacing at once now. I have learned to give the space she needs. I can’t push her to work through so many issues (won’t seek help) and neither can she. She is choosing to “weather the storm”. It’s heartrending to watch.

    I have had to take on more home care duties and this is affecting my feelings of “manliness” or “polarity”. I struggle to be the man I was when we met. I know however that I will be better than him eventually!

    I have a little Laminated note hidden high up in our funny shaped shower that reminds me daily to be “UNSHAKEABLE! (that stand out for anyone else?), Listen, Dont Judge, Dont try to fix, Don’t talk, Hold space (I get this now), and finally more Listen”. I like me more and this is creating an issue in that I am more at ease with all women than at any time in my life (half a century wasted, then). Sue said in one interview, “you can’t show up new to someone who’s known you for years”. But showing up new to someone new? Dangerous. Is this what bonnienpaul is alluding to?

    It would be difficult to compare the wealth of expertise in the tremendous team Sue has brought together, because anyone who buys a programme that works for them will rave about it. To the exclusion of the others. The amazing set up and support we have at PLM has changed my life for the better (and I thought Tony Robbins was good!). I am so glad I found RHD.

    My wife will be too, one day.

    • Andrew,
      Now I’m crying! What an amazing “share” as we say here in California.

      I am humbled by the number of concepts you’ve learned and applied to your life from within the wisdom of such a range of the experts that are included in the Revive Her Drive program.

      I knew when I was inviting such a “motley crew” of experts to divulge their latest thinking, that they would provide a scope of ideas by which a man might get overwhelmed.

      You seem to have picked from among the gems an excellent group of strategies, like holding space, not bargaining and being unshakeable. There are so many concepts in the program I worry that a guy will get inundated, instead of being able to pick and choose and personalize from all the possibilities. You’ve done an excellent job finding YOUR way.

      As far as Calle’s “religiousity” and NLP-informed writing style – overlook them as you likely overlook my overuse of the word “awesome” and open yourself to his ideas. Especially because you are concerned about your polarity balance while in support of your wife’s evolution. He’s good. Calle is damn good. Incredible really. His mind has deconstructed the masculine/feminine interplay, the delicate balance of being the man she finds safe and exciting and sexy.

      I’ve just read his new eBook he’s launching today (funny he came up) called UNBLOCKABLE Ways to Warm Up, Turn On and Seduce Your Wife and it’s a recipe for “just the right balance” of being that safe and exciting man she needs. For all the men out there divorcing their wives or suffering without intimacy needlessly, Calle’s work in Polarity provides foundation skills. When I read UNBLOCKABLE, I thought to myself, “Yes, this is exactly what we women want.” He’s nailed it.

      Once you get clear on Calle’s foundations for behaving like a man who his wife finds attractive, the next logical step, once you have a woman turned on, is to accelerate with David Shade’s work. They seem to dovetail together very well to me. But one couldn’t start with Shade’s Masterful Lover Manifesto (inside RHD) without getting Calle’s advice integrated first. Or it would likely feel to pushy to your lady.

      Remember too that your evolution will provide the example your wife needs to begin her “own work.” She will likely catch up to you because she sees what man you are becoming. If you’d like to write to me about her specific issues, I will think on how she might best be supported through the growth she needs to evolve to her next potential.

      When Tim and I were finding our way back, we got a lot of value out of a wide range of personal growth work, from Tantra workshops to Tony Robbins (loved your Tony comparison above – thank you – I am honored) to Human Awareness Institute and more. These couples workshops can be really fun to do together and there is likely something out there that can get her enough shift to see that the journey of growth is fun and revealing and lifelong.

      I have so enjoyed this thread with all of you. As I labor for hours, building my business, still learning how to scale Personal Life Media and putting in my 10,000 hours, sitting side by side with Tim, our hearts our buoyed by all of your postings.

      I adore all of my customers and my prospects and every man in the world who knows that he has inside him what it takes to lead his woman into her sexual potential.

      Once you get her turned around and moving forward, the fun just gets better and better. Your sexuality will morph from effort into bliss, if you keep moving forward in your learning, your trial and error, your skills.

      I am here with you, every step of the way.

      Love,
      Susan

  11. Hi Susan,

    Your comment stood out when you said:
    “Remember too that your evolution will provide the example your wife
    needs to begin her “own work.” She will likely catch up to you because
    she sees what man you are becoming. ”

    In the 20 years with my wife, I’ve not asked her to examine our relationship, nor herself.

    However, with all the learning I’ve been doing, I’ve been motivated to ask her to look and listen.

    I did give her your podcast list and tried to discuss them. It took her 3 weeks just to listen, and then she wasn’t interested in discussing. I’ve asked her to look at other info I’ve come across, but she seems disinterested and they just sit in a pile unread.

    However, she still likes to hold hands and cuddle.

    It’s like she’s holding a blind spot to parts of our relationship and is uninterested in looking at the sexual component of the relationship and discussing it….I just find it frustrating and have a hard time time finding this journey worthwhile anymore.

    I’m going to circle around now back to my first comment that started this chain, disagree with you again [sorry!!], and psuedo-quote something from David Shade.

    He says that there are 3 important things to look for in order to “choose women wisely”…they need 1) high self esteem, 2) intelligence, and 3) to be sexual.

    Under the heading of being sexual, he states, “if you find a woman who has high self-esteem and is intelligent, there is an extremely good chance that she is sexual. But some women are more sexual than others.”

    I have the first two with my wife….but that 3rd one is not there.

    She is sweet, loving, caring, warm, good, nurturing, and kind. But she is also sexually neutral. It’s not that she is anti-sex….it’s just as though the piece of her brain that ‘turns on the desire’ isn’t there.

    In the book “the sex-starved marriage”, the author details how many women don’t experience desire until they are already physically aroused…in other words, the desire/arousal pathway is reverse of what is typical. This fits my wife to a tee….and it really stinks.

    If you can imagine it, none of the typical “sexy talk” or “flirting” end up functioning. There is no “desire” for the comments to latch on to and work with. It’s like playing a tennis game where you keep lobbing the ball over the net and nothing comes back. Eventually you get tired of playing the game.

    S.

  12. I think I should clarify my last point because I don’t think I stressed the ramifications clearly enough.

    Everything that I read in Susan’s work, Shade’s work, Dr. Patti’s work, Susan’s panel’s comments, and from what I glean from Calle’s work assume that a woman’s mental desire can be targeted to cause physical arousal. That’s the basis of all that work, and that’s the neurotypical path for MOST women. (for an extreme example, Shade’s “think off” or non-touch-orgasm in plain English)

    But, if this path is “reversed” and you have to have to have physical arousal BEFORE there is desire means that all of this body of work has limited to no affect. It also means my wife doesn’t feel any need for masturbation, that fantasy life is nearly non-existent, and that sexuality is not triggered by a mental state….all of that falls out of the equation.

    In order to have her feel sexual, I have to get her arousal up first. Which means I have to get her to consent to have sex without feeling any desire or arousal to have sex. She enjoys the sex once we actually get her aroused. But she has to logically/analytically/emotionally decide it’s “time” to have sex. She has to make a conscious decision to become aroused even though there is no “desire”.

    I can’t text her sexy messages, send her IM’s with double-entendre, whisper comments into her ear, and have any of that have an affect. It plain doesn’t DO anything.

    And that, my friends, stinks more than I can put into words.

    S.

    • Steamy,

      You’re bumming out today. I can tell. And I am sorry. Ain’t nothing worse for a guy than feeling sexually rejected by his woman. It stinks and it’s depressing.

      I do not recommend nor do I believe that the mental must be arouse first before the physical.

      If you dissect the Four Elements of Revival – they are all mind, body and spirit oriented – not just oriented toward the mind or rational thoughts.

      The very first thing I recommend are romance strategies. These include body-based techniques such as “claiming her.”

      The second thing I recommend is to open her sensually. These are ALL body-based strategies that include the 5 senses plus proprioception.

      In the seduction phase, I recommend escalating small physical offers, Zone Theory for the outside in strategy, ways to begin kissing her and more.

      And in the advanced sexual mastery area, it’s primarily body-based activities that are recommended.

      What I also suggest you start with is understanding her resistance issues – what is it that prevents her from desiring sex.

      And I’ve also written about helping your lover Reclaim Her Desire here and that lack of desire comes from something “covering it up.” Desire is a life force and something is tamping hers down. Past issues, shame, cultural or religious shame, body issues – often a combination of things.

      Since your wife is willing to consent to sex without feeling desire for it, you are very fortunate.

      I know you want her to want you.

      And she can and may do that someday in the future with your excellent ministrations.

      Until that time, continuing to ignite her body as best you can, with a series of lovemaking dates and a series of Sandbox dates (educational sex dates) will likely move her forward.

      I wish I could give you a hug today, Steamy. You need one badly.

      Please go talk to your wife and tell her your feelings of vulnerability.

      Ask her to hold you and comfort you.

      And we will all hold you in our hearts today too.

      Can you feel us?

      We are here. Tim is here. I am here. Dr. Patti is here. Tallulah is here. David Shade is here. Calle is here.

      We are here.

      Much love to you, dear man.

      Susan

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